Specialty Mage Class - Summoner
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Joined: 22nd Jul 2014
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5th Jun

This was an idea that was mentioned by HibbiGibbi in general one day that I expanded on. Just thought I'd share this and gather some feedback. Again, not plans, just thoughts. If it looks like a good way to help elevate mages without throwing anything too far out of wack then maybe we have a concept worth pursuing. 

The class is really just an expansion on mages, which starts by completing a long and difficult quest chain. Once the quest is completed the mage takes the items to a tinker to put together a summoner's bracelet. Only mages can use the bracelet (soul bound?) The summoner's bracelet allows a mage to summon a pet (traditional summoned pets) that are immune to dispel, but in all other ways are pretty similar to a regular summoned pet. Maybe a small bump in stats, but not too much. Click once to select the pet, and twice to summon it. The bracelet is run off of charges which are produced by an alchemist using reagents (approx 2x what the average spell costs) and would have a chance to fizzle based on the wearer's skill level in magery. Summoned pets would not be shrinkable and would disappear after a period of time (TBD).

The idea here is to give mages a little boost in power (as we've done for melee with slayers and directional dmg) by allowing them to save their mana for direct damage spells. 

What are some of the pros and cons? How can this be exploited? What questions do you have?
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Joined: 3rd Apr
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6th Jun

I like it the idea and I think it is viable as long as the appropriate balances are in place. It's meant to be a character class, so naturally it should be difficult to adopt for a class other than a mage. Mages did just get a boost too, with the availability of slayer deeds for their spellbooks. What I think could work is, instead of reducing mana cost, why not reduce the control slots the summoned pets take. Currently demons and fire eles take 4, water takes 3, air, earth and EV take 2. We could lower every requirement by one slot, allowing much more varied combinations of pets while retaining the same mana cost. With high meditation, mana recovers fast anyway. This would benefit the class and help balance summoning so it can't be exploited. As much. Haha

Just a thought here, could Summoning be made an entire skill in itself? Whether this is possible, I don't know. Perhaps could use mysticism or something as the skill template. The problem I see here is the same as before - unless it uses mana, dexxers will be hugely boosted, by adding summoning to their template they would now have unlimited tanks to soak up damage, while hacking away with their super Slayer supremely accurate katana of vanquishing. Maybe down the road, Summoning could become its own skill, with an expanded repertoire of summons and whatever other additions and balances people can dream up
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Last Edit: 6th Jun by Jubei
Joined: 5th Jun
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6th Jun

I love the idea (as it's something I've always wanted to be able to play- a summoner).......my thoughts are to skill cap it. For example, maybe require 110+mage, 110+med, 110+eval, GM inscription, and GM Alchemy in order to use the bracelet. This would mean the player could craft their own charges.....but also mean they wouldn't have enough skill points left to make a viable melee toon out of it?
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Joined: 30th May
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8th Jun

After that, we can give Fighters a whip item, so they can subdue animals and also unable them to explore the rest of the 95% of the shard. Or maybe give the wrestling skill a chokehold ability to let animals tap out and surrender to you.

At that point might as well change to:



Sarcasm off:

I was hoping for something more unique, so many other shards already turned UO into a Pet Battle Simulator.

I know im sounding crude and not popular, but i 'm a little dissapointed. Not saying its a good or bad idea, i simply expected something else would be done on this shard. But if this is what the majority wants, then i can only respect that choice.
As for the 110 powerscrolls requirement. Older players that had the enjoyment of farming barracoon over and over might be sitting on a stack of powerscrolls, but newer players that have no access or no ability to party up with others (since shard is literally a wasteland when it comes to population), they might get stuck and dissapointed they cant develop further, or because they are dependant on others and handouts.
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Last Edit: 8th Jun by Jambi
Joined: 22nd Jul 2014
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8th Jun

After reading all of that I'm not really clear on just why you'd be opposed to it or what your alternative suggestion is. Perhaps instead of being so sarcastic you could provide clear counter points and your own reasoned approach to balancing the play styles.
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Joined: 12th Apr
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8th Jun

I like the idea, but have a couple of concerns.

1) Balance. We want to keep the T2A balance. This could distort that balance.

2) I would want this to be a "CLASS" not a skill. Class is inherently anti-Uo.

We might be better off creating a "Djinn bottle" that allows mages to trap Blade spirits and EV's for quick and certain release.

I LOVE the idea, just have some Phoenix based concerns.


Tell me again, where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?

Joined: 22nd Jul 2014
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8th Jun

Again I'm not really sure I follow. The point is to add balance, since a pure mage play style doesn't really have any tactical advantage over other play styles, such as directional damage for melee or the variety of custom tamables. As for point two, I stated in the title it's a class not a skill. So in other words it's not druid or ranger spells, which I think would be a different conversation. Lastly, how is the bottle any different than the bracelet?
Joined: 30th May
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8th Jun

Quote"After reading all of that I'm not really clear on just why you'd be opposed to it or what your alternative suggestion is. Perhaps instead of being so sarcastic you could provide clear counter points and your own reasoned approach to balancing the play styles."
You pretty much set yourself up already for whacky kind of custom changes.
Were in a AoS trammel / T2A , fighting with Pre AoS loot and skills. Except for the powerscrolls, which can ... well be gotten from AoS+ monster bosses.

Ontop of that you added in monsters ranging from AoS to Samurai Expansion and even some of Mondain's Legacy. Through all these expansions new skills were added and loot table's changed in order to make characters more powerful to fight these new enemies.
The skills like Focus, Chivalry, Necromancy, bushido for example and magical equipment changing Vanq to 35% dmg increase IE, adding mana/hp/stamina and elemental resists for and primary/secondary that can be manually triggered weapon abilites would balance out the variety of playstyles and unable them to stand a chance to these new monsters.

From what i get, we dont want to go down that road, so the only solutions i can think of quickly is to what is being suggested already.  Tamers tame those type of AoS+ monsters to fight, and well... Mages will have to get their summons buffed to a level were they can tackle these monsters too, or at least strong enough to Tank these monsters for a while as they nuke them down.
For fighters the slayer deeds somewhat buffs them, but nowhere near enough to be strong enough to compare.

Thats why i said i dont think the summoner idea is a good or bad one, as i can see the logic behind it.  But the pet-meta is simply not a road i expected Phoenix to go down to.

Its treuly is a dilemma , you can hate UO for whatever it has turned into today.. but they did find a way to make Tamers, Fighters and mage type templates close in strenght to eachother by managing loot changes , skills etc.

I can see how the current balance on Phoenix would work, if the server was teeming with players and partying up.. swarming the challanges and working together. But at this point is far from getting to that point as we dire need more players.

edit* Another note is that alot of the old dungeons etc got changed over the years, the variety and difficulty of these monsters were changed to, too reflect buffs on the PC's.

Last Edit: 8th Jun by Jambi
Joined: 22nd Jul 2014
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8th Jun

I really don't think AOS stats made everything all better, but we can agree to disagree on that. As for the "pet-meta road", again this is just an idea we're vetting, not a plan yet. But when we talk about mages, I don't see any other options for adding to their strength without affecting other play styles. I'm open to suggestions.
Joined: 30th May
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8th Jun

QuoteI really don't think AOS stats made everything all better, but we can agree to disagree on that. As for the "pet-meta road", again this is just an idea we're vetting, not a plan yet. But when we talk about mages, I don't see any other options for adding to their strength without affecting other play styles. I'm open to suggestions.
No they didnt in my opinion, since they almost made all old area's obsolete. But they did make players prepared for the new content and the tougher monsters that roamed there.

Its kind of why i stressed Slayer Deeds to drop from Kill Contracts to still visit old places. If you have a Tamer with a AoS+ pet.. or a Mage with a buffed Summon. Other then having fun or feeling nostalgic, if you're out to get stronger and get good loot.. you will find none to be had there. Or to res a gimped fighter

As for AoS stats, for fighters this was the rescue, complimented with Chivalry. No way even with 120 resisting Spells , you're going to survive long enough with 100 hp, and your stamina ( Weapon speed) would drop faster then you can chug down full refresh pots as only option for stamina regen, blocking you from using health pots. With a 6-7 bandy timer.. have fun fighting Tokuno poison spamming monsters or spellcasting.
Last Edit: 8th Jun by Jambi
Joined: 12th Apr
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8th Jun

"Lastly, how is the bottle any different than the bracelet?"

Your bracelet would make a stronger creature (I like the no dispel part) at double reagent cost with normal fail chance to cast.

Djinn bottle would be normal strength summons with no chance to fail.

Ultimately, I think the Djinn bottle would be easier to code and less impact to monster/ player balance.

Important to note, I LIKE the idea, think it should be considered thoroughly, and implemented with due diligence.

If we are open to complex code revamps... take some of the useless spells and revamp them.

Have the bracelet give tamer commands to control the summons more effectively.

Fiction is rife with powerful summons turning on their summoner, perhaps there should be that chance included, with eval intel + Intel being the check.


Tell me again, where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?

Last Edit: 8th Jun by Dewbacca
Joined: 22nd Jul 2014
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8th Jun

Yea the stat issue seems to be a point of contention. I did say maybe an increase, not necessarily, and I suppose due to the objection voiced, would probably not be included.
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Joined: 30th May
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8th Jun

Personally i have no objections to a creature like this.

Last Edit: 8th Jun by Jambi
Joined: 5th Jun
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8th Jun

My personal vision or desire for this was never toward buffed stats or even a 0 mana cost- but simply make mage summons to where they couldnt be "dispelled"..... Kind of like how the necromancers raised pets cant be dispelled- they can be damaged and killed, but not dispelled.

My viewpoint is skewed toward pvm since I dont pvp- but even in a pvp setting I dont think it would be any more overpowered than a tamer in pvp. Tamers remain king b/c their pets will always have more HP than any player or summon.

What I find that breaks the viability of mage summons currently is the number of pet slots they require and the mana cost of them (again, just to have them poofed instantly by anything magical).

Heck, another option is to forget about the dispel issue and instead make EV's, deamons, ele's etc only cost ~20 mana to cast and require 1-2 control slots.......so at least when they do get poofed the mage has mana to resummon and can have more than 1 out at a time.

And ultimately, this is just a personal fantasy I had. Even if it never gets implemented I'll still be on Phoenix b/c it's the best thing out there right now =)
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Joined: 12th Apr
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8th Jun

Ok, rogue idea here...
Gets tamer style control over summons as long as he/ she "focuses" on the battle. A meditative state has the summons focus their attacks on the target or focus of the summoner.


Tell me again, where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?

Joined: 22nd Jul 2014
Rank: Moderator
Likes 148
8th Jun

There are reasons why I proposed certain aspects as I did; some technical and some trying to add enough pros in balance with some of the other enhancements that have been made. True, they still may not be equal to tamers and quite frankly maybe they shouldn't be. The point is to provide more to those players who choose a different play style.

So far what I've heard has been mostly positive. I recognize the concern of turning to pets for balance, but the summons are already there, I'm just proposing an enhancement to make them more viable. It's still not going to be the right choice in all instances, but then neither is tamer.

An interesting perspective was raised which I'd like to turn our focus to for a moment, and that is PVP. I have never PVPd and don't really know how this sort of thing would impact that. Does anyone have an insight on that?
Joined: 4th Jun
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8th Jun

I just want to comment that I play a swordsman and had no trouble killing bloodsteeds and rune beetles last night for contracts. I don't even have 60 resist yet and my plate armor was crafted. So I think melee is fine
Joined: 3rd Apr
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11th Jun

I think we can make this much more simple. Add the quest for obtaining the summoning bracelet, and then with a bracelet a mage can summon as normal, except that the summons can't be dispelled. Done.

Leaving the mana cost the same will balance things for both PvM and PvP. Doing more than this could potentially skew things, especially in a PvP setting. I originally suggested lowering all the summons' control slot req's by one, but that would mean someone could roll with 5 air elementals. That could be really quick death for anyone. Instead, we could leave things as they are and just take out the dispellability™, retaining the current "balance" and allowing a reasonable buff for those who want to summon.
Joined: 22nd Jul 2014
Rank: Moderator
Likes 148
11th Jun

Quoteand just take out the dispellability™
lol

Yea that's probably the best approach. I mean that is all we're really after right, no need to over complicate things. Good suggestion ty

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